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About this episode
#45 — Eija Jokitalo is the Director of the Electron Microscopy Unit at the University of Helsinki whose work focuses on understanding organelle structure during cell division. We chat about why she believes imaging is key to solving biological problems, alternative career pathways inside a core facility and her outreach work in schools.
We also hear about how she juggled a career in science with parenthood, the joy of model organisms and why she thinks bigger may not always be better in science!
This is an automated transcript and may not be 100% accurate.
Peter O’Toole (00:00:14):
Today on The Microscopists I’m meeting with Eija Jokitalo, Principal Investigator, and the Director of Electron Microscopy unit at the University of Helsinki. And we’ll hear about her passion for imaging.
Eija Jokitalo (00:00:26):
I remember falling in love with, with microscopy in my very early studies in, in higher chemistry work,
Peter O’Toole (00:00:36):
Her outreach were helping to inspire the next generation of microscopists in school.
Eija Jokitalo (00:00:42):
I have been a couple of times teacher in, in this high school course, which is combining arts and science, and
Peter O’Toole (00:00:52):
We discuss her work imaging organelle partitioning during cell division,
Eija Jokitalo (00:00:56):
Kind of first own projects in Helsinki about how, how ER, partitions during, during our mitosis
Peter O’Toole (00:01:08):
And the importance of alternative career paths in core facilities,
Eija Jokitalo (00:01:13):
The scientific careers are very different and, and they need to be evaluated differently because if you are really good in your job as a researcher in core facility, you don’t have these first or last or for papers
Peter O’Toole (00:01:32):
All in this episode of The Microscopists. Hi, welcome to this episode of The Microscopists. Today. I’m joined by Eija Jokitalo. I’ve said that that wrong. Haven’t I Eija
Eija Jokitalo (00:01:49):
No, it, it was fine.
Peter O’Toole (00:01:51):
Ah, anyway, from the University of Helsinki working in the Institute of, Bio technology, a good old hardcore technologist. And if you’re watching on YouTube, you’ll also see that Eija got a brilliant electron microscope image in the background, which is the more you, you look at it, the more you see is absolutely brilliant. A thank you for joining me today.
Eija Jokitalo (00:02:13):
Hi, nice to be here.
Peter O’Toole (00:02:15):
I, I, I think, I dunno how many years we’ve known each other from various meetings mm-hmm
Eija Jokitalo (00:03:00):
It started as a passion for imaging. So it, yeah, like my, I remember falling in love with, with microscopy in my very early studies in, in biochemistry where I did, you know, very simple immuno flourescence imaging. And, and then during my PhD, I decided that I want to become an electron microscopist. So I was thinking of my kind of future post position or place based on where I could kind of combine cell biology and, and start doing electron microscopy. And already, when I, I left to do my postdoc, my kind of plan was to come back to Finland to, to to start electro microscopy to land in electron microscopy. And that’s what I did.
Peter O’Toole (00:04:04):
And, and big time, obviously you you’re very well known now in the, in the world for your electron microscopy. I’m gonna take you back though. You said that you got interested at an early age doing your biochemistry. So I presume that was your, your undergraduate.
Eija Jokitalo (00:04:18):
Peter O’Toole (00:04:19):
So where was your undergraduate degree?
Eija Jokitalo (00:04:21):
I, I have studied in University of Helsinki, so I, I started first first year was chemistry and then continued in, in the biochemistry. And so, so my master’s is in, in biochemistry. And, and then, then when I started doing my thesis, there is some additional courses that you take. And then, then that was when I kind of specialized in cell biology. So I haven’t really studied biology at all.
Peter O’Toole (00:05:24):
So how, how did you find that transition from chemistry to biochemistry to biology? How tough was that or was it easy, just a natural progression or actually, was it quite tough going?
Eija Jokitalo (00:05:35):
Well, no, it, it, for me, it has been really natural, but it was also influenced by, by strongly by one person Marja Makarow of my, my PhD supervisor. I, she gave some lectures about pro glyco and, and, and using yeast as a model system to study protein secretion. And, and I, I, I just felt that, you know, finally everything makes sense. And, and I, I went to Marja’s and told her that, you know, I want to do my thesis in your lab. And, and she said that, yeah, I, I don’t have any funding at the moment.
Peter O’Toole (00:09:15):
So I, I, I’ve got two questions on the back of that. So I’m gonna ask the scientific one first, actually. So what’s your bigger passion, the advancement and utilization of electron microscopes or that that process going to ER, and mitosis?
Eija Jokitalo (00:09:36):
They are totally connected,
Peter O’Toole (00:09:40):
Eija Jokitalo (00:09:42):
It’s I’m, I’m kind of my, as my own, the most kind of the biggest research topic I can kind of think of is the, organel, and structure, but I wouldn’t like to study that using any other tools. So, so imaging and, and visualization and seeing them is the key. So as, as a microscopist and as a, so I’m, I’m a head I’m lead a EM core facility. So we are of, you know, my, my facility, we have around hundred projects each, each year, and we also do a lot of collaboration projects. So through these collaborations, I’m, I’m studying kind of really wide range of, of model organisms, different kind of research questions. And this, this is really fascinating too, but, but always when there is a chance of, of making a detour to, to ER culture, I will take it.
Peter O’Toole (00:11:03):
I, I thought the one bit that was interesting there. Well, it was all interesting. The, the one bit, I think to pick up on those, you have a hundred, 100 projects going through using the microscopes. It’s a huge number of projects and the electron microscopes, the importance of different technologies, underpinning science. And I, I, I would imagine the range of scientific questions you are addressing using the electron microscope in those a hundred projects, one range from cancer research to newer biology, to the fundamentals of developmental biology. Microbiology probably encompass all those aspects. So
Eija Jokitalo (00:12:25):
Peter O’Toole (00:15:04):
And so you have three technicians, two research officers.
Eija Jokitalo (00:15:08):
Peter O’Toole (00:15:09):
And these career parts are in the grand scheme of time are relatively new type of positions within universities. And it’s interesting to get an understanding of the type of person that wants that type of role people
Eija Jokitalo (00:15:26):
Going to that, you know, the success, why, why I’m kind of really happy at what I’m doing is that actually, you know, I have a great team. So two of my technicians have been EM technicians over 30 years. And, and the, the third technician actually is, is my former postdoc
Peter O’Toole (00:18:59):
I, I think you are, I’m glad you mentioned this. I’m bring something up in a moment that I’m doing at work at the moment. I think the scientific profile is not just on your own scientific is on the facility, it’s on your impacts and expertise in the microscopy, which is academic in a way as well. And so I, I tend to go hand in hand, I, and I’m just looking at job descriptions at the moment, and for new staff coming in and there’s templates for technical staff, there’s templates for postdoctoral staff, but actually a lot of our staff, our technical staff, but, but they have that academic traits to them and they have to have that academic side to them as well. So they, they kind of sit In between these two groups, I would say they are more on the technical side. And I think we should say that we pride. I think that’s a, a really good role cause we are multitaskers, but the same time many of our staff are posts to hire mm-hmm
Eija Jokitalo (00:20:13):
This, this is we, we need to kind of create this third personal category. And, and this is actually what we proposed very clearly that, that we, we kind of made a list of top titles, but we also made a very kind of bold proposal that we really need to have, you know, a third personal category created. And, and that of course, you know, involves a of legal, technical things. It will take several years, but it’s, it’s kind of how in the future, you know, things should go in, in the, in the core facilities, you know, we don’t, we provide service, we maintain instruments, very expensive instruments, but we also do research and we develop things. So, so there is both the technical aspect and, and then the, the research aspect,
Peter O’Toole (00:21:21):
I, I I’d be interested to see that document at some point you say, I just playing with it at York at the moment. York has fantastic scales. They’re very on par par and it’s well rewarded, but I do think there’s, there’s an opportunity to, to look at if we can make it more clear promotional scales and so forth as well. Mm-Hmm
Eija Jokitalo (00:21:44):
Peter O’Toole (00:21:46):
Sorry postdoc in London. Yes. How did you find living in, in London compared to Helsinki?
Eija Jokitalo (00:21:51):
Peter O’Toole (00:23:03):
You found so, so I was going one of the questions I was gonna ask you when, when was probably the most fun time of your career, but it sounds like that was probably your,
Eija Jokitalo (00:23:11):
That, that yes, there was, there was so much kind of you, you know, we were a big lab, we were 15 postdocs and everyone was fully committed to work. And, and we, we really worked hard, but also the, the, you know, we had a freedom to, to start the projects and, and, and see where they kind of take us. And, and of course the resources were, you know, we had our own transmission, electron microscope, just, you know, for the lab. So I was sharing that microscope with one technician and one student. So, so no heavy booking
Peter O’Toole (00:23:57):
Yeah. But now how many electron microscopes do you have?
Eija Jokitalo (00:24:00):
Okay. We have five.
Peter O’Toole (00:24:03):
Yeah. See, even just lots of users. Yeah.
Eija Jokitalo (00:24:06):
But not, you know,
Peter O’Toole (00:24:37):
But, so how did you find that transition of moving from the, the driver to the backseat driver, to the part of the person back in the taxi rank, just the, what they should be doing and hearing where they needs to go next?
Eija Jokitalo (00:24:49):
Well, it happens structurally, so you, you, you know, you don’t notice it in a way. It it’s, it it’s kind of, I think it’s quite natural devolvement.
Peter O’Toole (00:25:02):
And do you, you enjoy the way it’s evolved.
Eija Jokitalo (00:25:06):
Yes. Because, and there, there has been other things that, that has come along. Of course. Yes. It’s, it’s stressful for, to make applications and reports all the time. But, but for example I think that one of the really best features in core facilities is kind of the networking. So in, in Finland we, we are small country and we don’t have that much resources. So, so I think that quite early on, you know, 2009, we formed this kind of [inaudible] Finland networks. And for example, in that all the, in, in, in all of the universities in Finland, the imaging units were kind of networked. And since that time we have jointly made our strategy that who specializes in what, and what kind of instruments we, we apply. And, and for example, in that strategy, we decided that, that, you know, we want to specialized on 3d EM, and, and then the others have supported us in the applications to get the microscopes for that. And, and then at the same time, I, I know that I don’t need to provide everything for our users, that there are some techniques where I can then just send my people my, our users that, you know, why don’t you contact? And, and this way, you know, we are not kind of competing with each other. We are competing against the other networks,
Peter O’Toole (00:27:34):
So have the mass spec community, the genomics community, have they got their acts together in such a good way as well? Or are they very much,
Eija Jokitalo (00:27:43):
Yes. We, we, in, in this Bio Finland network, we have 19 platforms.
Peter O’Toole (00:27:49):
Eija Jokitalo (00:27:50):
So, so basically,
Peter O’Toole (00:27:52):
Cause that means you’re competing against them and they’ve got their act together as well. Otherwise you,
Eija Jokitalo (00:27:56):
Yes, yes, yes. But, but so, so the, in the, yes, but, but you, you always have, have that network support and, and everyone’s doing this kind of strategic, so it’s easier to compete as one out of 19 than, you know, alone with these 58
Peter O’Toole (00:28:29):
So thinking of networks, it’s not just the national network, international networks are equally important. So what’s your favorite meeting?
Eija Jokitalo (00:28:42):
You know, I’m, I’m, I have this dual thing in everything. So as a cell biologist, it’s the, ASCB, which I try, I, I haven’t, I, I, I don’t participate every year, but I, I try to go as often. So, so it’s, it’s great. I, I, I like the, the kind of the atmosphere and, and, and seeing people and, and also meeting all kind of ex postdoc friends and
Peter O’Toole (00:29:42):
That’s based around Scandinavian groups.
Eija Jokitalo (00:29:44):
Yes. Yes. So that’s just, you know, meeting all the, all the vendors that represent kind of Nordic countries and then meeting all the colleagues. So that, that is most like, you know, the events that, that kind of happen outside of the, the [inaudible] and, and, and then, then then, then the, every second, or in a way in every fourth year is the International Electron Microscopy Society meetings. And, and, and then every fourth year is the European counterpart for it. So these, these big meetings, we, we have kind of really big instrument exhibitions and, and, and then, then everyone to tries to, to come. And of course, you know, the international meetings have provided me a way to travel to
Peter O’Toole (00:31:19):
So where was this one
Eija Jokitalo (00:31:21):
That that’s in the [inaudible] meetings? So that’s, that’s a lunchbox and we were starting at this kind of lecture seminar. And I was kind of very, very proud of being able to use the topics
Peter O’Toole (00:31:44):
And on your lapof as well, which is cool. So IMC and EMC. And of course, I, I guess you, I’m gonna tell you off now, the first thing you should have said was EMC is my favorite one, obviously Come over. Cause you, you are helping run one aren’t you coming up soon?
Eija Jokitalo (00:32:02):
Yes. So, so I’m, I’m organise in the, the organizing team for the next EMC meeting. It was scheduled to happen in August, 2020. And, and it was unfortunately canceled quite in the last minute we had already kind of abstract submissions going on and, and so on. And, and it was delayed for four years. So, so hopefully the, the next meeting will be in 2024 in Copenhagen. So SCANDEM Scandinavia and microscopic society is kind of the, the host organizer and, and I’m, I’m chairing the life science symposium. Yeah. So it’s, it’s a huge privilege, but it also, again, a great way of, of networking and, and really working, connecting with people all over the Europe and, and making plan.
Peter O’Toole (00:33:16):
Yeah. So I, I, I very much looking forward to it cause I, I was going to 2020 and I look forward, hopefully we’ll get to 20, 24 for it. I, I, I know obviously Klaus, Sandra, Julio, all part of that team that are helping yes. Assemble it as well. Now you sent me another picture, which is
Eija Jokitalo (00:33:40):
Peter O’Toole (00:33:41):
Which looks like a map of the world, but I’m not sure it is. What is it? Yes.
Eija Jokitalo (00:33:45):
It, it is
Peter O’Toole (00:36:39):
So you are letting high school children, usual microscopes, which cost how much money
Eija Jokitalo (00:36:46):
Peter O’Toole (00:37:51):
It’s not great though. Cause it shows they’re engaged and they want a picture to take home, to show their parents or their friends say, look, what I’ve seen, look what it is cause you, they, they, I come on, we all take pictures of everything these days. Don’t go look what I saw. They put it up on social media and that’s great. And I, I, I love the contrast to a 200,000 pound camera on your TM to your a few, a few euros worth of camera that’s on those, but you are also into photography is a hobby.
Eija Jokitalo (00:38:24):
Yes. But I’m I’m and that’s, that’s one picture it’s, it’s kind of reflection of some moss growing on a tree on, on the, on the river. And, and what I, I like this is that it’s not so easy to say that what is kind of the, the, the real thing and what is actually the reflection of the water. So I’m not good in, in photography that’s, that’s,
Peter O’Toole (00:39:10):
So is this yours as well?
Eija Jokitalo (00:39:12):
Yes. This picture I told to, you know, that’s, that’s where I live. So I live in this really far east corner of Europe where sea freezes every winter, and this is actually a sunset on a frozen sea and the picture is taking around two 30 in the afternoon. So, so the, in, in December, the sun goes down before 3:00 PM and, and I, I, I don’t think, well, we can see on the background, there is already some snow. Yeah. The, the, the sea is maybe not. So thick the eyes yet that I would, I didn’t want to walk on it, but, but around January time you can drive your car on the, on the, on the sea.
Peter O’Toole (00:40:12):
So how, how have you found, and you obviously got a daughter. How old is your daughter now?
Eija Jokitalo (00:40:17):
Peter O’Toole (00:40:17):
How old is your daughter?
Eija Jokitalo (00:40:19):
My daughter is 33 33.
Peter O’Toole (00:40:23):
And just a one daughter?
Eija Jokitalo (00:40:24):
Peter O’Toole (00:40:25):
Okay. How did you find in the early parts of your career balancing your work life? Bringing up, you said you’re a single parent bringing up a child or doing your post-doctoral research, developing your academic career on back of that after that, how, how did you find balancing on that?
Eija Jokitalo (00:40:42):
Well, you know, again, it was very natural because she was born, you know, before I kind of became a researcher, she was born already during my, my masters studies. So it has been all the time, you know, the two us. And
Peter O’Toole (00:41:04):
And what has she got? What has she got on to do?
Eija Jokitalo (00:41:06):
Well, she’s a Vet,
Peter O’Toole (00:41:09):
So keeping some sort of science in the family
Eija Jokitalo (00:41:12):
Peter O’Toole (00:41:35):
Eija Jokitalo (00:41:36):
UK. So where
Peter O’Toole (00:41:37):
About where about is she?
Eija Jokitalo (00:41:39):
Peter O’Toole (00:41:42):
Eija Jokitalo (00:41:43):
Or haven’t so, so very south. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Peter O’Toole (00:41:48):
I have a niece who’s a Vet down south in Portsmouth.
Eija Jokitalo (00:41:52):
Peter O’Toole (00:41:54):
But that, that’s, that’s really cool. You must be very proud of her as well. And succeeding through. So your other hobby
Eija Jokitalo (00:42:01):
Peter O’Toole (00:42:03):
Eija Jokitalo (00:42:06):
Yes. I’m, I’m doing any type of craft, craft, handy craft, but that’s, that’s like art quilt. Yes. So some embroidery and things, anything to do with manipulating fabrics. I, I love colors and, and then sewing and, and just doing things. And I, I think that’s kind of the balance to the scientific, but
Peter O’Toole (00:42:36):
How did you take the picture? Cause I can see one hand. I can see another finger, which is on hand.
Eija Jokitalo (00:42:40):
That’s not it’s, it’s someone my friend has taken the picture, so it’s, it’s my, my, my fingers. And, and yeah,
Peter O’Toole (00:42:49):
I, I was just trying to work that to one hand. I can see another finger, so two hands and a picture I thought that’s
Eija Jokitalo (00:42:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Peter O’Toole (00:42:56):
Eija Jokitalo (00:42:56):
That would make, I, I, I, I belong to this group of 10 women and we meet, we, we are kind of around Finland. We meet couple of times per year and, and we organize one kind of exhibition roughly per year. So, so during these meetings, we planned the theme and, and do kind of practical plan. And then everyone is doing the kind of art pieces solo part. And then we meet again when we kind of set up the meeting and, and, and that part is actually, we, we spent four days in, in a small island. And of course, when going to island, you cannot take a showing or much of the material with you. So the instructions were that everyone takes a white shirt and then a couple of needles and then some thread. And then over these four days, we were just going around the island, enjoying the views and staying wherever and, and sewing. And, and then, you know, in the end, the, the, these, we’re not really looking shirting.
Peter O’Toole (00:44:22):
A truly well knitted network. One could say, yeah, I’m gonna ask you some quick fire questions. So PC or Mac
Eija Jokitalo (00:44:33):
Peter O’Toole (00:44:34):
You’d be that McDonald’s or burger king.
Eija Jokitalo (00:44:38):
Mm McDonald’s. I don’t like smoke at all. So burger king. I don’t, yeah. It’s it’s smoked stuff. No,
Peter O’Toole (00:44:48):
That that’s fine. Early bird or night owl,
Eija Jokitalo (00:44:52):
Peter O’Toole (00:44:53):
Oh, okay. I’d say just like Lucy Collinson, it’s only with electron microscopy in the dark. I’m sure. Tidy or messy as a person
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:04):
Peter O’Toole (00:45:06):
Tidy, Maximist or minimalist.
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:11):
Maximist, everything’s kind of full of stuff, yeah.
Peter O’Toole (00:45:15):
Mighty maximist impressive. Okay. Tea or coffee,
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:20):
As you know, you don’t know, you know, the dirt looks really ugly in, in microscope, so, so, you know, we need to keep things tidy.
Peter O’Toole (00:45:30):
No, that is very true. Tea, coffee,
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:33):
Tea, never coffee.
Peter O’Toole (00:45:36):
Ooh, chocolate or cheese,
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:38):
Chocolate, never cheese.
Peter O’Toole (00:45:42):
I like this certainty. This is not yes. TV or book.
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:50):
Peter O’Toole (00:45:51):
Audio. Good, great jokes. So get, get in the middle audio book. Watch your favorite film.
Eija Jokitalo (00:45:59):
Peter O’Toole (00:46:01):
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:02):
Peter O’Toole (00:46:04):
I don’t know it. Oh, no. Okay. That’s one to look up. What’s your favorite Christmas film?
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:14):
I don’t have any.
Peter O’Toole (00:46:16):
Oh, okay. What’s your pet hate?
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:21):
So what my pet hates.
Peter O’Toole (00:46:23):
Yeah. What annoys you?
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:28):
When they want me
Peter O’Toole (00:46:37):
That’s fine. What do you most love? What, what an item that you would a luxury item that you most love?
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:47):
Hmm. My sewing machine.
Peter O’Toole (00:46:51):
Oh, good enough.
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:51):
I have a really fancy one.
Peter O’Toole (00:46:53):
Good answer. So next question. What is your favorite item of clothing then?
Eija Jokitalo (00:46:59):
Mm, it must be some of my woolen and socks.
Peter O’Toole (00:47:05):
Eija Jokitalo (00:47:05):
I have like a huge basket of them, so
Peter O’Toole (00:47:09):
Of woolen socks
Eija Jokitalo (00:47:10):
Peter O’Toole (00:47:11):
All paired up together.
Eija Jokitalo (00:47:14):
Peter O’Toole (00:47:16):
Nice. do you prefer to cook or to be cooked for?
Eija Jokitalo (00:47:25):
I like to control things, so I would prefer cooking.
Peter O’Toole (00:47:28):
Okay. And what is your signature dish then? What is your best dish that you cook?
Eija Jokitalo (00:47:40):
I, yeah, anything, you know, depends who’s coming For, for my, my sister’s kids, you know, they want to have, they, they, you know, prefer meatballs. My daughter is a vegan, so
Peter O’Toole (00:48:10):
What, what is, what is your least favorite food?
Eija Jokitalo (00:48:15):
Well, I know to fish and, and seafood, so anything and also seaweed. So basically anything coming from sea.
Peter O’Toole (00:48:25):
Okay. Ooh. That’s not so easy. Did I ask you, I don’t think I asked you Wine or beer?
Eija Jokitalo (00:48:35):
I think beer goes the same category as coffee. So it’s just the bitterness. That, that feels strange. There’s actually, I, I I’m collecting statistics. So usually people who don’t drink coffee, they don’t like beer or, and vice versa. So it’s, it’s not easy to find a coffee lover who doesn’t drink beer
Peter O’Toole (00:49:01):
So it’s wine red or white wine?
Eija Jokitalo (00:49:05):
Peter O’Toole (00:49:07):
Only white. Yes, because the Red’s too bitter.
Eija Jokitalo (00:49:11):
Peter O’Toole (00:49:50):
Eija Jokitalo (00:49:50):
And I have feeling that we were kind the listeners in this
Eija Jokitalo (00:50:11):
Yes. But it was great stories. It’s, it’s, you know, interesting to listen to people who are enthusiastic, or, you know,
Peter O’Toole (00:50:24):
But tell me, were you not sitting there drinking your wine, listening to him, talk about it and thinking, well, talk about it, but can you order the next bottle please?
Eija Jokitalo (00:50:55):
Peter O’Toole (00:50:56):
What would you say your favorite publication is that you’ve author or co-authored for whatever reason, do you have a favorite, a fond, a favorite publication?
Eija Jokitalo (00:51:07):
Yes. I, I think it is, it is the first one where I’m the the last author, my, my, my first students Mia’s first paper, which, which was published in JCP in 2007, where, where we show the, the, how, how ER, partition or that ER, undergoes this kind of structural transformation.
Peter O’Toole (00:51:41):
That’s a, that’s a very nice answer. Mm-Hmm
Eija Jokitalo (00:51:48):
That’s really cool. I’m I, I, I, I haven’t supervised that many students kind of on my, I, I have co supervised a lot of my kind of students also from my, my collaborators, but, but I, I have four students, you know, fully kind of responsible and I’m so proud of each of them, you know, it’s, mm-hmm,
Peter O’Toole (00:52:36):
Yeah. Which is a good point. That’s the important part. You’ve got an academic career, which is doing your primary research and developing it, but at the same time, you’re developing careers alongside that. And as you’ve already mentioned, you do your outreach alongside that. And I think this is a picture of your, your re
Eija Jokitalo (00:52:55):
Yes, yes. This, this is in the middle. There is these two guys [inaudible] they are my students. And then the rest is my, my em facility team. And, and we are all in the same boat.
Peter O’Toole (00:53:22):
So, so, so quite literally, so for those who are listening it, they are all in the same small, very small boat, which is quite a task for eight, eight people at the same time.
Eija Jokitalo (00:53:34):
Peter O’Toole (00:53:36):
But you are not in it.
Eija Jokitalo (00:53:37):
I am there in the middle with the black hair or dark hair.
Peter O’Toole (00:53:41):
You can’t change the color of your hair that doesn’t help.
Eija Jokitalo (00:53:44):
I, I, it all the time
Peter O’Toole (00:53:47):
So who took the picture then?
Eija Jokitalo (00:53:50):
This, this picture was taking in vascular during the dinner in SCANDEM meeting. So,
Peter O’Toole (00:53:58):
So there’s plenty of, yeah,
Eija Jokitalo (00:54:00):
Peter O’Toole (00:54:00):
Just in case I sailed off with it. You need to be careful on that. Where do you see
Eija Jokitalo (00:54:21):
This, this is very personal view and, and not really, I’m sure it’s not the, the right answer, but, but what, what I, I see now that there is a trend that we go we try to automate everything, and we go bigger and bigger. We, we want to collect always bigger volumes and higher resolution. And I don’t think that that increases the understanding of, of, you know, the scientific question necessarily. So I’m, I, I, don’t kind of, you know, I don’t like that trend so much. So I, I, for example, I’m waiting that someone kind of reinvents stereology again, like, you know 800, you know kind of mathematical approach, which has been around long time. So, so instead of everyone to trying to just make lots 3d volumes and segment objects, I think that we could actually use stereology and start analyzing, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and get, I I’m IM I love pictures. I want to see everything. And in the end, I want to make them in the numbers. And I think that we should remember that in EM, you know, the power is that we see the structures and the, in the right surroundings and, and we should pay attention to analyzing the structures and the surroundings and, and try to go kind of, you know, not to decorate things, but, but really measure and, and, and, and analyze things and go
Peter O’Toole (00:56:43):
Hand in. Do you not think that by getting more volumes, bigger dataset, you can make more measurements in a more quantitative way?
Eija Jokitalo (00:56:51):
Yes. But is that always necessary? You, you know, in, in the sterility, it, it shows that you can actually, you, you know, instead of calculating a areas from, from every slice, you take every 20 slice and you actually can quite nicely predict. So the same is little bit that you know, I, I, I think that I, I would, I think all these correlative is, is the key, so, so we should always kind of get the bigger picture with something else and, and then EM, for the details and, and yeah, so, so maybe that’s, that would be maybe the right answer
Peter O’Toole (00:58:20):
Yeah. So, so going from the, the collated light to electron microscopy, which of course then gives you the volume, the size, the portion You left the electro microscope to concentrate, focus to where it’s
Eija Jokitalo (00:58:32):
3D. And, and we, we have also tried to connect MRI imaging and this diffuser denser imaging with 3d three 3d EM, where we get kind of functional data and from the MRI images from, you know, some brain activities and, and then, then go from there to, to EM,
Peter O’Toole (00:59:07):
Which is for anyone, listen, who’s, who doesn’t understand the technologies or around that linking from an MRI to a light microscope is very challenging to go from an MRI to an electron microscope, which almost bypasses that little bit is incredibly challenging. And Eija we are now up to the hour mark
Eija Jokitalo (00:59:28):
Peter O’Toole (00:59:29):
Oh, Eija That is one that, that has gone. So stupidly fast. I I’ve, I’ve just gotta ask you two really quick questions. What did you want to be when you were 10 around that as a young girl,
Eija Jokitalo (00:59:43):
Peter O’Toole (00:59:44):
Eija Jokitalo (00:59:55):
I think I have pretty much I’m doing what I wanted to do. I, I have followed one path. I haven’t just treated to what I’m doing, but I, I, I, I really I don’t think I have other options. The, because options, when I started studying, I, I was thinking that would it be some kind of crafts or science and, and it was a great advice from my mom that you all of also need a hobby, that there is a risk. If you making, you know, your most passionate hobby as a kind of profession, how do you then balance, you know, things?
Peter O’Toole (01:00:46):
I love that answer because that’s why I never became a professional footballer simply cause I,
Eija Jokitalo (01:00:51):
Peter O’Toole (01:00:52):
There might have been another reasons as well, but I’ll just go with that one.
Eija Jokitalo (01:01:55):
Okay. See you soon. Bye.
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